dogpossumtitle.jpg

June 01, 2005

a nice long post about public private talk

And to continue the thoughts I had last night.
Yesterday’s post was by no means a complete or fully thought-out version of my ideas about this issue: time was against me and (happily) I was distracted by the kindest message from a friend who said nice things about something I’d written elsewhere online. Sigh. Niceness.

But to return to the issue.

Of late, it seems that some of the swing dance community have recently discovered that some of us are not only posting on the swing talk board, but also posting on our own blogs. Ah, technology. And ah, free time: I’m always fascinated by the way you can tell how someone’s life is going along from a sudden increase in posts on a discussion board, over-sensitivity to public discourse and so on. Or how close they are to finishing editing that same bastard chapter…
So, having discovered these blogs, they’re not exactly happy with the fact they are not described in glowing terms by all and sundry. That it’s not exactly a love fest.

So let’s have a look at the issue.

Firstly, let’s think about blogging. One of the most important points is that blogging gives us a chance to say exactly what we like, at any length, and in any terms we like. There is no editing or censorship. No guidelines, no moderators, no public opinion to limit the terms on which we discuss things.
Well, it seems that way. Particularly in the swing community, the things you say online often have quite real effects in the face-to-face: from not getting dances to being ‘snubbed’ (though no one snubs like The Squeeze. He is king snub). This is one thing I’m fascinated by and have explored at length in my thesis: unlike other online spaces, swingers online are constantly interacting with many of their online peers in a face to face environment. Thus their online behaviour is moderated by the face to face. As I’ve read somewhere, we are most likely to behave badly online when we don’t know the people we’re interacting with – when we’ve only just met them online, or we’ve never me them face to face.
Swingers’ online behaviour is moderated by their face to face interaction. Add to that the fact that swingers tend to be a bit on the socially retarded side for the most part, that the culture encourages self-doubt (through a lack of useful feedback and a constant pressure to be a ‘good dancer’, a state most usually indicated by whether or not one is in a troupe, a teacher, hanging with the cool kids, getting asked to dance, etc etc… these factors do not, of course, necessarily correlate with any ‘real’ dancing ability. It’s a social thing, don’t yew know) and you get more than a tad of angst.

Ok, so in blogs – unlike the swing talk board and other public forums – we can say whatever we like. We have the power of the Word. And not only can we say whatever we like, we can control other people’s right to respond on our site: we can delete, edit or block comments. Fantabulous. We can’t control the things other people say on their own sites, but frankly, why would we want to? I know that the best solution for being cranky with someone’s blog is simply not to read it. Ta-da! Peace of mind.

This is particularly important for women in the swing community. There’s not much talking in swing. But there is a heap of misogyny from some quarters. At times it’s simply too much to have to deal with the fragile egos of men who simply can’t manage to moderate their own behaviour. Who can’t understand that being snubbed (and not in a nice, Squeezy way), or being avoided needn’t be a symptom of nastiness on the part of the snubber, but simply a less confrontational way of taking a difficult person out of one’s life. So if I have trouble with someone – if they upset me with their selfishness, their lack of empathy, their offensive jokes, their lack of respect for women, etc etc etc – just as with other people’s blogs, I simply avoid the source of my unrest. Ta-da.
Here, I am choosing not to take responsibility for other people’s behaviour by choosing not to remain in a relationship with them (be it friendship or otherwise), but instead leaving them to sort it out on their own. It’s a disturbing trope in swing – hell, with many a young bloke – that they are dependent on the admiring company of a woman to bolster their own ego. I advocate women refusing to think ‘oh, I can change him. I can make him a better person’ when they’re in a relationship with an arsehole man, instead choosing to opt out and move on. Let him manage his own behaviour. We are not their mothers. They can learn to be grown ups on their own.

At this point, when said men say “oh, but what have I done? Why don’t you like me? Can’t you tell me where I’ve gone wrong – I want to change!” (and man, I can’t believe how frequently I’ve heard that line), I think ‘dood, don’t handball the responsibility for your actions on over to me’. There is the counter-argument, that if they so desperately want to change, perhaps we should help them out. After all, don’t we all benefit from better behaved young men in our community? I don’t agree… or rather, I have a more complicated response.
First, if I care for someone, if I want to be their friend or their lover or their partner or whatever the relationship is or has been, I will make an effort. But I think that we should leave relationships that make us unhappy more than they make us happy. We shouldn’t think ‘oh, I can change him!’ we should think ‘when he’s proved that he’s changed, maybe I’ll rethink my position'. Otherwise, staying in the relationship is not only an insult to them (why would you think it’s ok to change someone?), but allowing yourself to remain in an emotionally abusive relationship. And, quite frankly, when they ask you “what have I done? Can’t you help me be a better person?” they’re getting into some serious emotional manipulation. And who needs that shit? I’ve got family for that!

So you walk away. And quite often the person you’re walking away from really doesn’t like it that they’re not the centre of your world any more. That you have, quite clearly, demonstrated the fact that you don’t need them, that you don’t like them, that your life is quite complicated and interesting enough without them, thank you very much.
So ensues a range of behaviour: sooking. And if sooking doesn’t regain your attention… then there’s the shouting and yelling. And if that doesn’t work… there’re the personal attacks. If it isn’t smacking you with a block (can you see the analogy I’m trying to draw here?), it’s bombarding you with aggressive pleading/abusive correspondence. Phone calls or emails or letters or posts on a discussion board. And, quite frankly, does that sound like behaviour that will convince you this person is worth your time and effort. Noooo, sirreee. That’s immaturity, right there.

Where is blogging in all this?
Well, for women (and I’m talking on gendered terms, here, because that’s how I’ve experienced this sort of stuff in the past), blogging is quite simply a space from and in which to speak. Without being interrupted. Without having to spell check, or be sure you’re sounding clever. Without having to share the floor, or take turns. You can make stupid jokes or bitch about the washing up. You can crap on about your favourite singer (or dance teacher or theorist or artist or whatever) for as long as you like. You can learn how to use code (or not). You can tell long stories, public poetry, post your own drawings. You can talk about how you’re feeling – go into painful detail about trashed marriages, explore your depression, your sexuality, your work, your philosophy. And no one can stop you or tell you that you’re stupid or wasting your time. It’s all about YOU.

The next best thing is that if you hang around for a while, you might find that other people stumble over your blog and decide that they find it interesting enough to keep reading. Whether they love it or hate it, the things you’re saying (or posting) are keeping their attention. They’re provoking a response. The neat bit is that you can just delete their comments if you don’t like what they’re saying. No waiting for your turn here. You’re totally the boss.
But the absolute best thing is finding that there are people who genuinely like what you have to say, or find your comments thought provoking or just plain wonderful. How neat is that? And because you’re the bosses, you can just delete the people who try to shut you both (or all) up. And to show you totally dig someone, or like just to read what they say (whether to get all happy or to get all furiously stimulated), you link to them. In the body of entries, or – highest of esteems – in your links bar.

This is the next interesting bit: the way blogging allows you to develop networks. And feminism has long been a fan of networking. Could you tell I was heading here? Making a point about blogging as a feminist tool? A website of one’s own? I like it that I can read other people’s blogs and think ‘ah, I know what they mean’. And if we do discourse together, maybe we can discover that we really do share opinions.

Which brings me to my next point.
Just because you read it on someone’s blog, don’t mean it’s true. Or that you know this person. You know what you have read. But the meaning is something that you have made (go semiotics, go), in the reading process. The most difficult part of all this, in my specific situation, is that in swing culture, you rarely get a chance to really talk to people, to really get to know them. It’s because – at dance things – you’re too busy listening to music, watching people dance, or dancing yourself. So relationships in swing are kind of strange. To get to know someone, you need to interact outside dance spaces. That’s where you get to know people.
But it seems that a vast number of men in the swing community haven't quite gotten this. I have this trouble with men, rather than women. And with particuarl types of men: those who simply don't know how happy, healthy relationships work (be they sexual, friendly, professional or otherwise). They honestly think that reading about someone online, combined with seeing them at dance things constitutes a close relationship, or even knowing someone. Crazy talk. I've had blokes get all upset and shitty because I don't want to spend all my time with them - they've assumed that because we chat out dancing or online that we're best friends. When really, we're acquaintances. And women in swing have proved more adept at discerning between types of friendships and relationships.

The thing that urks me, is when people read your posts on a discussion board, read your blog, see you dancing and think ‘oh, I know that person. Now I am in a position where I can comment on their ideas and person with authority’. Or, even worse: ‘now I can tell them how to act. I can demand they interact with me on the terms I dictate’.

I know that when I post on a discussion board, or I comment on a blog, or I write on my own blog, I’m not actually in any position to tell people what to do. I can rant and rave and crap on. I can weedle and whine and convince. I can belabour points and derail upsetting discussions with distractions. But still, it’s really just my opinion and ideas, and in the final analysis, how someone thinks and acts is entirely up to them. I am not in any position to change someone, or to demand/ask that they change.

The nicest part about a blog is that you’re not interrupted while you’re doing all this. But it’s important to remember: people are reading. And far more people are reading than posting in comments or on the discussion board.

Posted by Dogpossum on June 1, 2005 01:20 PM
Comments

poker

Posted by: poker at August 4, 2005 06:50 AM

poker

Posted by: poker at August 4, 2005 06:50 AM

poker

Posted by: poker at August 4, 2005 06:49 AM

poker

Posted by: poker at August 4, 2005 06:49 AM

man, i am totally gonna WHUP yo cute little arse next time i see you skenlet.

Posted by: dogpossum at June 14, 2005 05:01 PM

SHUTTUP DANCE NERD!


:D

--Skenvoy

Posted by: skenvoy at June 10, 2005 07:15 PM

you'd like to _think_ you're raping the internet, skendor. but i think this is one mamma who's just a little too big for you...

irony: crinkle and i are happily blogging on with our usual rambly rubbish (90% supernerd dance talk, 10% general chitchat) and you'd never guess which bits catch the attention of the delicate...

hell, i've heard _you_ say far worse thing than either of us have ever said, and i still like YOU. mostly because you're such a dang coootywootycootywoot!

so far as "being a loudmouth prick can bring up topics that others were too chickenshit to talk about.." sure, that might work, but you'll find that being a sneaky prick is often more effective. you want people to think it's all _their_ idea. blunt objects are all very well, a shout carries, but it's easier to lead with your body than your arms.
least amount of energy, most efficient medium, most satisfying results.
body leads and reciprocal connection. that's where it's at.

Posted by: dogpossum at June 3, 2005 04:08 PM

IM RAPING THE INTARNET!

little harsh, eh crin?

then again, i hear everyones been fighting with everyone over something trivial (thats just my take on it)..

i dont get it, nor do i really care, but just because im a loudmouth prick, doesnt mean im raping a public forum. Sometimes being a loudmouth prick can bring up topics that others were too chickenshit to talk about.. but i digress

Be cool, STAY IN SCHOOL!

Dont forget! I FREAKIN RULE!


--Skenvoy

Posted by: Skenvoy at June 1, 2005 08:09 PM

nah, i won't delete it.

hey, i echo most of your opinions.
don't stop blogging.

Posted by: dogpossum at June 1, 2005 03:26 PM

i just wanted to add my two cents about blogs of people you know in real life.
someone used the analogy of: getting upset about people reading your blog is like holding up a big sign and getting upset when people read it.
but reading a blog of someone you know is quite different to someone you don't.
i might liken it to the idea of holding a party at a bar; you invite your buddies along; knowing that other people you dont know will be there (you dont mind these people because you ddont have to deal with them in real life); but you do not expect people you know to turn up unannounced and not go over and introduce themselves (either by commenting, signing the guest book or bringing it up facce-to-face) but instead sit at the back of the bar unwelcome and helping themselves to my snacks or bar-tab.
it is general common courtesy out respect to the relationship we have in real life.

so i think the main place that this issue has sprung from is the fact that certain individuals cant cope with freedom of speech. it is not about them, it is about me, dammit! perhaps i should now set up a blog entirely devoted to these complainers, but what would be the fun in that? i wouldnt even want to read about them, let alone write about them..

on my blog i recently posted about the question of whether to look at my friend's blog that i stumbled onto. i was refering to someone that i hold in the highest of esteems in real life and, for those who were wondering, i chose NOT to read it -purely out of respect for the relationship that we have in person. if they choose to take our friendship onto the web then i'm happy with that but otherwise i'll leave it.

i like how you made the distinction between public forums (like SHB) and blogging because that was a large part of the reason why i started blogging in the first place - i wanted somewhere to write that was entirely segregated from SHB and the people on it. it was not meeting my needs at all. if i were to just post whatever shit i felt like on a place like a public forum i would not be respecting the other people on there and RAPING it (yes i use this word because that is how i percieve it and the damage caused by certain people in the past) of all the value it once held for so many other people. just like when i'm in conversation with someone face-to-face i only write about things that are relevant and appropriate for the people listening. for example; a 'what are you working on now?' thread does not mean i write in absolute detail how my shoulder blades relate to social dancing as this would bore the pants of people and not be appropriate for the conversation. i save those kinds of gems for my blog.
i actually dont understand why so many people that are prepared to write stuff like; how they go down on guys while they are playing playstation, dont see how stupid that is to read in a public forum and yet dont put it on their blog (actually i dont know if they even have a blog but so they might say). why be so exhibitionistic in front of hundreds(thousands?) of people and yet think that blogs are a waste of time? i'd like to say 'stop wasting my time and move on!' but i dont because it's not my place, it's their choice what they write about just as it's mine. i've made my choices.. so FUCK OFF!

ps. dp feel free to delete this, it is afterall your blog and you have the power to choose what goes on here and what doesnt.
pps. this has not been proof read so i dont know what it says, goodluck to ya!

Posted by: crinkler at June 1, 2005 03:24 PM
Post a comment









Remember personal info?